What Would it Sound Like If Three Smart Publicists Discussed the Future of PR in Hollywood? Something Like This…
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Wag: First of all, thank you for joining Wag Under the Cone. You know the rules. This is a safe space—at last, you can say anything you want! Our first question has to be, why do so many publicists hate the word publicist?
PR Guru: I don’t hate the word. I’m proud of publicists! But it’s too reductive.
Rising Star: It just doesn’t get at all of the things people in public relations work do— at this point, nobody is really focusing on getting placements in legacy media as the main event. It’s bigger job, involving building an image, protecting it, and helping people grow their brands.
The Bomb Thrower: Publicist sounds a little tacky — like you run around holding somebody’s coat for a living. I’m not saying I haven’t done that, and I’m sure I’ll do it again. But I’m not their assistant —
Rising Star: — not that there’s anything wrong with being an assistant!
Wag: There’s a sense that PR, in Hollywood and everywhere else, is in transition. I remember reps telling me how hard it is to work with the new tech players in the business, that they don’t get the old rules. Can you elaborate on that?
PR Guru: My sense is that publicity is five years behind where journalism is, in terms of it being completely disrupted. On the personal side, there simply aren’t the same celebrities and relationships anymore. I don’t see a new generation of A-list clients replacing the ones we have now, and that’s caused this huge shift.
The Bomb Thrower: The entire architecture of the business has changed. Nobody’s making big stars anymore, sorry.Subscribe
Rising Star: I think it means a different kind of relationship to talent, and really, how you define “talent.” You can’t say that public image doesn’t matter anymore. If anything it matters more, to more people. Social media has made everybody a public figure, so that’s an opportunity for public relations work.
PR Guru: I agree with that to a point. But you know, this has always been a very old fashioned business. It still boils down to relationships that you build, and the bonds you forge with any client. I don’t see that changing. What will change is like, the way the rest of it works — the big studios, the independent PR agencies, the talent agencies. I don’t know if the landscape looks the same in 15 years. Netflix must be the biggest employer of publicists in the business. That’s a huge change.
The Bomb Thrower: You can’t have Hollywood without publicity. But you know, Hollywood might not exist —
Rising Star: Take that back!
The Bomb Thrower: I don’t mean to speak an inconvenient truth, but the business I grew up isn’t really there. I worked as an assistant. I took a lot of crap, everybody did. I don’t see that appetite to put in the work in PR anymore. I don’t necessarily think people are willing to make the sacrifices that were expected of publicists…
Rising Star: Maybe they shouldn’t make those sacrifices. I like that I’m seeing a lot more PR people, particularly young women, making time to have families, setting limits with clients, really treating this profession like a profession, not like some thing where you sacrifice everything [and] get back very little. I think the publicists who set boundaries, who demand to be treated with respect, get it.
Wag: No argument there, but you bring up one of the most important issues for independent publicists in Hollywood. That you don’t make a percentage on what a client takes in, unlike agents and managers —
PR Guru: Well, that’s always going to be one of those things that really bugs the shit out of people.
The Bomb Thrower: I have all kinds of theories about that, which frankly boil down to who has traditionally done this work in Hollywood. Women do it. OK, not only women, no offense! But it’s been set up in a way so that the work we do is less valued, even though it’s critical work. We take on the most, we are expected to make sacrifices, and here’s a designer bag for your trouble. Meanwhile, other people get rich. And if something goes wrong, you’re vulnerable.
Rising Star: I think there’s an alignment between a lot of reps and talent on that score. You know, publicists have helped lead the conversations around MeToo and the Golden Globes and all that. Obviously, we’re close to our clients, and we’ve seen things. But we’ve also experienced things ourselves. There’s been a lot of abuse.
PR Guru: I don’t think anybody’s hands are clean there. I’ve seen people treat one another terribly within the industry, not just client to publicist, but publicist to publicist, agents, producers, all the way around. I’m glad that’s changing. I think people are demanding respect.
Wag: So do you think the way publicists who work with talent get paid will change?
[laughter]
The Bomb Thrower: Let’s not get crazy! People are cheap. I mean this with love. It’s an insecure business. Everybody who works in it has to watch the bottom line.
The Rising Star: The expectations are changing. We define our work a little more broadly in one sense, so there’s so much opportunity beyond the traditional Hollywood stuff. But also, I don’t think anybody approaches the business in the same way, like I said. Nobody is doing this to become a saint.
The Bomb Thrower: You say that, but it’s hard to set limits with clients. It’s always going to be hard. And it’s hard, especially for young publicists, not to blur the lines between what is work and what is friendship —
PR Guru: It’s work. These are not your friends. Rule No. 1. Your friend doesn’t pay you to hang out with them. When your friend’s not working, she doesn’t stop paying you. These are your employers.
Bomb Thrower: I have clients of many years, with whom I am very close. I love these people. But I hesitate to call them friends. I work for them. I know that it isn’t forever.
Rising Star: We all know people who have been fired by a longtime client and never really get over it. It’s heartbreaking. It’s so easy to say, it’s just business. But it is also personal. And you learn to roll with it.
Bomb Thrower: We’ve lost clients to one another. I recommended somebody work with [Rising Star]. I’m not saying it’s easy, but it’s the gig.
Rising Star: Some people aren’t as professional as you!
Wag: We’ve seen a lot of changes in PR in the past decade — the big agencies that dominated the industry aren’t what they were, and a lot of publicists have become entrepreneurs, forming their own businesses. And then there’s the streamers —
PR Guru: I’ve worked on aspects of this industry. Some of this is the way it always goes. People strike out on their own when as they develop a good list of clients. I think that’s healthy and normal. You’re always going to have publicists who like independence. Then their businesses grow, and some of the people working with them will strike out on their own — it’s a cycle.
Bomb Thrower: People say life is short, but life is also long. You are going to be working with these people, in one way or another, for a long time. You are going to be seeing a former client with somebody else at an event. You don’t go scream at them.
PR Guru: You just think about it!
Rising Star: Some of this is about what people like. There are folks who are just talent people, and there are studio people. And there are people who like working with directors, or whatever. I’m not really interested in corporate PR work. I can’t make myself be interested. I like working people one-on-one. I like helping them build something. That’s me. I think that’s easier in a smaller environment.
PR Guru: I really don’t want to sound pessimistic. But I do wonder about whether a lot of these roles are going to be combined in new ways. We all know publicists who became managers. I see talent agencies trying to move aggressively into the space of image management in partnership with PR firms, and I see our idea of what talent is changing. People are signing TikTok stars, obviously —
Bomb Thrower: Zero interest! But you know, they can pay…
PR Guru: They aren’t going to sign with me, because I’m not the demo. But there are young women I work with who that makes sense for. I’m not a snob about this. I think what we can provide translates across a lot of areas. I think the skill set lends itself to all kinds of things — producing, managing, whatever.
Bomb Thrower: Crisis!
PR Guru: Well, obviously there’s growth in that area.
Rising Star: I go back to what I saying earlier. I think we’re defining public image in a new way, and that means a lot more people are going to have to manage their public image. It’s not just the stars. It’s everybody.
Wag: Should everybody have a publicist?
Bomb Thrower: From your mouth —
Rising Star: I think it’s about redefining what that word means, and being open to new possibilities in terms of what we do. I think [PR Guru] is right in terms of rethinking what the Business is, like studios and agencies and all that. I’m going to be optimistic and say smart PR people are more necessary than ever.
PR Guru: You are optimistic!
Wag: Let’s shift to what you think might be problems that lie ahead. What bugs you about the state of PR in Hollywood?
Bomb Thrower: I think there’s a learning curve with a lot of the new [tech] places. Like, they don’t understand how the Business works. I had a thing where one place wouldn’t give us basic information we needed for a client because it was being treated like the launch of a new computer or something. But there are always frustrations.
PR Guru: Some culture stuff is changing. I’m not going to get into how it works with some of the streamers, but obviously we have our challenges with the studios, too. You have to be open to working in new ways. But people need to be respectful.
Rising Star: My thing is, just be straight with me. If there’s an issue, be forthcoming. Don’t hide information. If there’s bad news, let me manage it with my client. That’s all I ask. That goes for anybody I deal with.
Bomb Thrower: Amen.
Wag: OK we should wrap this up. Any words about Awards Season. The Oscars are coming.
PR Guru: Are you kidding? I’m not going there. I wish everybody the best.
Bomb Thrower: I can say this, because I’m not involved in that: I’m not sure we needed all those events. I don’t know if it isn’t better when things settle if we decide to keep a little more pared down. It’s very hard on clients.
Rising Star: And the people who work with them! Just kidding. There are things I miss, honestly. I think there ways to capture some of that and lose some baggage.
Wag: Anything else you miss?
Rising Star: Oh sure. Seeing more of my people. People don’t know this about us, but we’re fun.
PR Guru: Don’t let that get out! Actually, one of the things I always say about PR folks is that they are terrible at their own PR.
Bomb Thrower: This is still under the cone, right? ‘Cause that can’t ever get out…
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August 23, 2024
